ACTIVE OFFSIDE Club Rule

[Steve George]

It seems to me that Subbuteo has always endeavoured to be like real football where possible.
So I have taken a look at the offside rule, to see if it can be brought up to date.

In attempting to make the game rules easier for newcomers in the planned SPORT RELIEF TOURNAMENTS, I have attempted to come up with an OFFSIDE RULE that replicates REAL FOOTBALL.

ACTIVE OFFSIDE is given in similar circumstances to the NEW F.A. rule.

Any attacking figure NEARER TO THE GOAL LINE than TEN defending figures is deemed to be in a PASSIVE OFFSIDE position, when the ball is played FORWARD and past the last outfield defending figure BY ANOTHER ATTACKING FIGURE.

An attacking figure in a PASSIVE OFFSIDE position is only penalised if / when it becomes ACTIVE by immediately touching the ball.

At least TWO defending figures, which includes the goalkeeper, must be in the SHOOTING ZONE for an attacking figure to be penalised for ACTIVE OFFSIDE.

An attacking figure in a PASSIVE OFFSIDE position may be PLACED onside by an attacker when in possession of the ball. The figure must be PLACED in an onside position parallel to the touch line and a minimum distance of 25 mm from any defending figure that is in the IDEAL position.

An attacking figure placed onside cannot play the ball until another attacking figure has flicked at the ball.

Have introduced PLACING to do away with all the ONSIDE FLICKS, BACKS, RE-TAKES and COUNTER BLOCKING that may confuse a NEWCOMER. It also supersedes onside flick direction and distance stipulations.

I hasten to add, I am not campaigning to change the OFFICIAL RULES, just playing with some CLUB RULES.

Have I managed to bring the REAL OFFSIDE rule to the table? Are there any loopholes?

[lionofludesch]

Hope you don't mind me saying so, Steve, but house rules are the absolute bane of the game.

The more versions of the rules there are, the more fragmented the game becomes.

[Steve George]

Don't mind you saying, Liono.
I have to agree to a large extent.
But also think that some current rules can be equally detrimental.

I was going to apply FISTF rules, but once again I found myself going round the houses trying to explain rules. Big ask in some instances, especially to a newcomer. I was just thinking that if the offside rule was the same as the real game, newcomers might grasp it quicker ( or at least have a head start ).

Do readers think it would be better to just stick with the FISTF or ADVANCED RULES regardless of my reasons for simplifying?

[Steve George]

Really split to be honest!

[Gary]

think old offside rules before all this passive and active crap came into force (to me a player is active if there is another player heading to mark him even if he then ends up offside as he has removed a defender from play). and instead of halfway line think shooting area. If you do that then arnt the offside rules exactly the same as the real game? 2 players between the attacker and goal line when the ball is passed to him. One line of rules, no measuring required and no 12inch:1foot scale hand reaching down and picking up players.

To me offside is one of the more obvious rules, there are many many more that are more confusing

[Martin Hodds]

Have I managed to bring the REAL OFFSIDE rule to the table?

Probably not, but to be fair I don't think you ever can really. REAL offside is players constantly moving and trying to time runs which no game with stationary plastic figures can ever truly replicate.

I don't think your rule is better or worse than the FISTF rules. Placing a player onside or flicking him onside is pretty straightforward to new players IMHO once it's been explained to them - I was a new player not all that long ago. You are trying to reinvent the wheel when actually I don't think you need to.

[Steve George]

The current offside rule ...

A player is only penalised for being offside if he is in an offside position when the ball is played forward, and he touches it.
According to the current rule, a player in an offside position when the ball is played shouldn't be flagged until he touches it.
Although, I think a lot of officials have bottled the correct application because of ignorant fans, pundits, players and managers out there who moan about late calls.

The only exception is if he obstructs the movement or sight of a key defender. Not really relevant to table football because figures don't have eyes to see with.



These are the only recognised interferences.

So I think I have the current rule in essence.
You might argue that a player in an offside position is blocking the perfect block flick ... which would be valid in accordance with the actual rule.



It seems to me that very few people realise just how simple the existing rule is, because or their reluctance to let go of the old rule in some form.

Just trying to make things easy for newcomers, and more in keeping with a the real game which is evolving all the time ( in lots of ways ).
Previous offside rules didn't need to be re-invented, but think the changes have improved the game.
Passing back to the goalkeeper didn't need to be re-invented, but once again, the changes have improved the game.
Because something doesn't need re-inventing, doesn't mean that it wouldn't benefit from a little re-invention from time to time, Martin ( with respect ).
Otherwise we would all still be watching black and white TV's



Having said that, I am not suggesting this rule be changed at the top.
Just thinking about giving it a little play time, to see if it eliminates a lot of time consuming titting about with tick flicks that hit other figures and have to be moved back, and counter blocking flicks.

[Martin Hodds]

Steve, if the current offside rule confuses players, spectators and pundits, then I'd say the FISTF rule replicates real football perfectly !

Sorry but we don't do progress in Wakefield.

[Steve George]

That's OK. I don't do rules very well.

[Algy]

Your rule seems fairly sensible to me. If the people who're playing know the real football offside rule, it'd make sense to use it (of course, there's plenty of people who either don't or won't understand the new football one ... I don't think it's that complicated, mind).

Think part of the beauty of association football is that it's pretty easy to understand the rules of the game, with maybe the exception of the offside rule. That's partially why I think it's a far more popular game globally than rugby, cricket and so on. Haven't got a clue what's going on with rugby half the time. I'd try not to over-think any problems - if it takes you more than a sentence to explain a rule, it's probably not a very good one.


I find the FISTF offside rule a lot simpler to understand than any of the others (esp. the advanced rules one, which makes no bloody sense to me!).

[Steve George]

The Advanced Rule appears to be the same as the current FISTF rule ( in essence ), Algy.
Albeit, worded differently.
Perhaps a leaning toward NOT penalising the offside figure until he makes contact with the ball ( Rule 4e ).

"A figure in an offside position is not actually offside until the ball is passed through, but if from this position he attempts ( is flicked ) to play the ball he is immediately penalised."

Tick flicks should be flicked as near as possible, on a path parallel to the touchline.

[ally]

and can't cross the halfway line otherwise back can be claimed. This part of the rule makes far more sense than the FISTF version. How many times have you seen a player in an offside position suddenly leg it 90 yards to cover a gap in defence, while his team are still in possession and attacking.

Bring back the advanced rules........

[Steve George]

[lionofludesch]

and can't cross the halfway line otherwise back can be claimed. This part of the rule makes far more sense than the FISTF version. How many times have you seen a player in an offside position suddenly leg it 90 yards to cover a gap in defence, while his team are still in possession and attacking.

Bring back the advanced rules........

Absolutely.

FISTF rules have obviously been written by an idiot.

[ally]

Bloody hell Richard agrees with me, i better go and lay down for a while to recover

[Algy]

Table football is a completely different game to association football. In assn football, all players can move back when they're not in possession (or forward when they're in possession). In table football, one player can move back. That's a HUGE difference, and why the idea that you should have some artificial limits on how far the player can travel when taking a shot or moving back from offside position are totally ridiculous.

Although on the face of it they're not overly realistic, they do make the game closer to the real thing in terms of simulating what movement actually takes place. It's not as if your strikers have different attributes to your defenders in TF, so a flick from the opponents penalty area to your own could equally be symbolic of a striker moving back to midfield and a defender moving back from midfield to help with defensive duties.

As Mike Bradbury told me when I first started playing - "Subbuteo's not some mickey mouse game, it's got nothing to do with football"

[lionofludesch]

Table football is a completely different game to association football. In assn football, all players can move back when they're not in possession (or forward when they're in possession). In table football, one player can move back. That's a HUGE difference, and why the idea that you should have some artificial limits on how far the player can travel when taking a shot or moving back from offside position are totally ridiculous.

Although on the face of it they're not overly realistic, they do make the game closer to the real thing in terms of simulating what movement actually takes place. It's not as if your strikers have different attributes to your defenders in TF, so a flick from the opponents penalty area to your own could equally be symbolic of a striker moving back to midfield and a defender moving back from midfield to help with defensive duties.

As Mike Bradbury told me when I first started playing - "Subbuteo's not some mickey mouse game, it's got nothing to do with football"

Happen as maybe.

But that's no justification for a penalty for offside. That's just stupid.

[Algy]

Happen as maybe.

But that's no justification for a penalty for offside. That's just stupid.

How do you get a penalty for offside, then? Surely the offending player will always be in the wrong penalty area for that to happen ...

[lionofludesch]

Keep up, Algy. We discussed this a couple of weeks ago.

[Algy]

I didn't

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